I built a lightweight AR10 earlier this year. I had been out shooting it a few times, but recently, when out shooting it, the accuracy suddenly all went to crap, and it was because the barrel nut had loosened. I suspect that it was because I had sufficiently torqued down the barrel nut: what with the supply chain issues and such I hadn't been able to find an AR10 vice block in stock and had resorted to (carefully) clamping it in a vise with padding and trying to be careful with it. This time around, although I couldn't find anything local, Primary Arms was carrying the Wheeler Upper/Pic Rail Vise Block which they sell for $34.99 (but I got on sale for $31.99).
This is a hefty bar of steel milled out so that the pin blocks on the upper receiver fit down into a slot, and then two included pins slide through holes to hold the upper in place. There are holes to fit either the AR15 or AR10/DPMS uppers. It worked great and I didn't have to worry about applying to much force to the sides of the receiver to hold it in place.
Although Wheeler recommends using this with a bench vise with at least 6-inch jaws, my vise with 4-inch jaws held it just fine. Since the forces I was applying were perpendicular to the jaws (z-axis), I didn't expect any issue. Perhaps it would have made a difference if I had been applying a linear force parallel to the direction of the jaws (x-axis) or one straight up or down that could push one side of the block up or down (y-axis).
The slot in the block, in addition, is also milled so that you can slide a Picatinny rail into the top of it if you need or want to work on the upper with it upside-down, which came it handy when tightening down the screws for the gas block (if you are not familiar with the AR platform, you have to remove the gas block and gas tube to work with the barrel nut).
In short, this block was worth every penny I spent on it. And since I'm sure to have additional AR projects, it will be used again.
Another relatively recent purchase is the Tipton Ultra Gun Vise, which I picked up through Amazon. This is not a replacement for a bench vice--at least not for heavy duty work. Rather, it is just to hold your rifle (or shotgun or what have you) while you perform maintenance or minor assembly. It has padded, textured feet so you can use it on the kitchen table or counter without worrying about marring the table- or countertop. Nice if, like me, you would rather work in a temperature controlled environment like a kitchen or dining room instead of in a hot (!) garage in the summer time.
In the past I have used a pretty basic gun cleaning stand (something very similar to this one) to hold a rifle while working on it: something that has a couple of "forks" with large, rubber padded V-notches that are a fixed distance apart and fixed height and you just sort of scoot the rifle around until it is somewhat steady. It works well enough for cleaning, but it a little more problematic for other tasks like holding the rifle while trying to mount a scope or bore-sight said scope, or anything else where you need to keep the weapon absolutely steady.
I saw a review a couple months ago on the Ultra Gun Vise and decided to pick one up. The heart of the system is a pretty stable base with two parallel metal tubes, held together with a couple braces, that fold over on the ends to accept the adjustable feet. You can then clamp to the tubes a couple pieces that hold risers/arms and a piece with a magazine block for an AR. All of these pieces can be moved around (or removed) as needed and, of course, clamped into place. In addition, there are two plastic trays that clip over the tubes to hold small parts or whatever. Again, you can move them or remove them as you wish.
The risers to vises with rubberized or soft plastic jaws. The risers can be adjusted up and down and locked into place. Each jaw can be tightened separately, and each jaw is fitted over a ball allowing it to angle or rotate as needed to better conform to the shape or angle of an object. Furthermore, there are thin strips of the same padding material below the jaws on the riser so you won't scratch your firearm if it were to contact the riser. The bases for the risers, the risers, and the jaws are made of a heavy duty ballistic type plastic. The blocks holding the risers and the risers themselves are reinforced with thick sheet steel fittings. So, all in all, the vise is pretty sturdy (and it feels that way--it is no lightweight).
So far I've used it to hold a rifle while installing and leveling a scope and it worked as needed. I was able to level the vise so it didn't rock on the table. I was able to adjust the risers to hold the rifle as needed and tighten down the vise jaws to keep the rifle from moving as I installed the scope rings and scope. I didn't need the trays or the piece with the magazine insert, so I removed those before starting on my project (which also allowed me to move the risers pieces closer together). So, all in all, a good piece of kit.
Now, I will point out that this is not for holding a rifle or receiver when applying a lot of torque to it such as installing a barrel or muzzle device. For that, you will need something like the Wheeler vise block discussed above. And it is not a substitute for a shooting rest. But it holds a rifle or shotgun steady for maintenance and cleaning tasks.
I've read some of the negative reviews at Amazon on this product, and I suspect a lot of the problems are people applying too much force: either overtightening the various clamps and jaws, or putting too much force on a firearm or crossbow on which they are working--i.e., some job that is probably better suited for a bench mounted vise. And perhaps it is the user's expectation that is the problem. I bought this as an upgrade for my gun cleaning stand, not as a substitute for a bench vise.
Have you considered using a reaction rod instead of a vise (FYI, it's vise, not vice) block? A reaction rod puts the barrel nut torquing stress on the steel barrel extension rather than concentrating it at the two pin holes in the aluminum upper receiver.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the correction on the spelling. I should have known that.
DeleteI came across a reaction rod type device in my hunt through local retailers, but it was for an AR15, and I didn't pursue it further when doing my online search.
You're welcome.
ReplyDeleteReaction rods, the good ones at least (I'm not aware of anyone selling crappy junk ones but I'm sure there is, somewhere) are rather pricey. The Geissele steel rods, for AR-15 and AR-10 (the AR-10 is usually labeled "7.62/308" or "SR25/308") are $99 and $199, respectively, from Geissele. Wheeler sells an aluminum version for AR-15s about $60 on Amazon, I have no experience with it, both of mine are steel Geissele rods. Brownells carries the Geissele rods and Brownells discount codes are available on the web. If one does semi-frequent upper builds, rebuilds or barrel swaps they are worth it. They do not replace an Upper Vise Block for general upper assembly tasks because the Vise Block will hold the upper in a good position for all non-torquing assembly tasks and the reaction rod won't. It will, however, do a much better job of absorbing barrel nut torque to prevent upper receiver damage and make sure the torque being applied is going all into the barrel nut and not being distributed throughout the upper receiver. You won't use it a lot so most people finch - hard - at the cost but they do have value. All that said, multitudes of AR-15s and 10s have been assembled without reaction rods and they work.
And, about vises - good ones, like all good tools, are expensive; I have a Wilton 8" mechanic's vise on the bench (the mechanics' vises have finer threads on the spindle for better control), bought used for $450 (they're ~$700 new) and I replaced the jaw pads; my older 6" Wilton now is bolted to a 16" square of Gorilla-glued double thickness 3/4" oak plywood so it can travel. A few 8" C-clamps serve to hold it to almost anything, be it truck bumper, B&D Workmate, picnic table or concrete-top shooting bench. Being able to hold something securely to work on it is, quite often, important.
Vises will have a machined flat surface on the top, claimed to be suitable for use as an anvil. I suppose it will work for that, and I have used the anvil space on the "portable" vise for that a few times, but a real anvil - again, more real money for a real anvil - is a much better choice. Real anvils are not only expensive, they're heavy so they're "shop tools" that don't get carried around much, but there is no substitute for a decent anvil; since farriers have to travel to the customer, if you're ever around a working farrier take a minute to observe his (or her) setup.
Good info. Thank you. I will have to look into these if I put together another upper.
DeleteI discovered the cost of vises probably 15 years or so ago when I was finally able to set up a work bench and move beyond a small hobbyist vise and discovered how expensive they can be, even from Harbor Freight (which had slightly higher prices than Lowe's). Although I wanted a larger version, the 4-inch fit my budget and that is what I've used since.
I started looking at anvils several years ago when my son started expressing an interest in trying to make his own knife blades, and discovered that they are not only expensive but hard to track down, at least in this area. I have a very small one that is sufficient for a few small projects, but never picked up one that would work for the knife making. And, of course, there are all the different hammers and other tools, a furnace or forge to heat the metal, and so on.