Marcus Wynne: "Random Thoughts on Crowds and Attacks"

It has now become trite advice to "avoid crowds." Perhaps so trite that people start to ignore the advice. So perhaps its good to review why and how crowds can be dangerous. In 2016, Marcus Wynne posted to his blog his "Random Thoughts on Crowds and Attacks." He raises a lot of good points about why to avoid crowds (or perhaps the better term might be proto-mobs). But he begins by relating some stories of how quickly large, densely packed crowds can turn to violence. 

    The first was a personal story of his, from an incident that occurred in the 1970s while attending a benefit concert in San Jose CA for Cesar Chavez and the Farmworkers Union, featuring some pretty good bands. He relates: 

    I was about three bleacher rows away from the first major fight. It was hot, people had been drinking and getting high all day in the sun, and several La Familia security were called over to intervene in an argument between a huge unaffiliated biker and a patch-holder from one of the smaller CA MCs. When it kicked off, it kicked off big.

    I remember watching the fight flow like a ripple in a pond, getting bigger and bigger till it was a tidal wave: first two guys fighting, then four or five, then knives and chain belts (outlaw bikers used to wear the drive chains of bikes for belts as they made handy flails in melee combat along with the obligatory Buck Folding Hunters and fixed blades) and then easily one third of the bleachers that held over 45,000 people erupted into violence. Gun shots, knife fights, fist fights, people screaming…and the crowd and the fight nosing one way and then the next like a gigantic animal.

    Me and my buddy couldn’t fight our way through and down, so we turned and did the opposite – we fought our way up the bleachers, and then climbed over the safety rail and made a precarious descent down the support structure behind and beneath the bleachers, and then climbed a high barbed wire topped fence to escape.

    As I recall there were several hundred hospitalized after the mass riot, and the police couldn’t even get into the stadium.

    I will never forget how fast the violence grew, how fast it turned, and how fast people got ate up in it. I’ve seen similar violence elsewhere since then, but that first impression has never left me.

    So I avoid crowds.

    Next, he brings up an incident from 2013 where a 22-year old Dutch woman working for an NGO went to join in the excitement of the marches in Tahrir Square. Only, at a certain point, the crowd became raucous, and men started grabbing and pinching her butt, pulled her away from her friends, ripped off her clothes and began raping and sodomizing her so violently that she had to undergo emergency surgery. You can read a New York Post article about the incident here or a Sydney Morning Herald article here. Although the articles describes her being raped by 5 men, she stated in a later interview that she had been attacked by a group of at least 50 men, so who knows how many raped her. (The interview is in Dutch, but Google Translate does a good job of translating it). Marcus has linked to a video showing part of the incident which apparently became too popular and so, of course, YouTube took it down. However, I believe that the video below may be the same one:

VIDEO: "Dutch tourist raped in Cairo" (1 min.)

    As you can see from the video, the crowd was so large and tightly packed that there was no way anyone could come to her assistance, although, per her interview, a man repeatedly to try and pull her to safety, and stayed with her as best as he could. She related that she thinks she would have died but for that man. Even if she had a weapon, I doubt she could have used it effectively in the press of the crowd and it would have been ripped from her hands. And martial arts? What is that going to do with dozens of men grabbing and clutching at her?

    Marcus next relates a similar experience suffered by CBS news correspondent Lara Logan in 2011, also at Tahrir Square in Cairo. Here is a New York Times article about her experience. But you really want to watch or listen to the interview she gave to 60 Minutes about the incident which also has excerpts of the video that her camera crew was shooting when it occurred:

VIDEO: "Lara Logan breaks her silence"--CBS News (14 min.)

While her attackers penetrated her with their fingers and beat her, she was not as seriously injured as the young Dutch woman discussed above. Even though Logan had a larger group, including an Egyptian translator and a guard or colleague that was former Special Forces, they were ultimately pushed away from her and could do nothing.

    Both of these incidents are examples of "Taharrush" "where gangs of men attack, assault, rob and in some cases rape women." We saw more of this during the 2015-2016 New Year's attacks on women in Cologne and other German cities by Muslim refugees. (See also this article).

    But violent crowds or mobs are not just a danger to women. They can be deadly for men as well. For instance, Marcus moves next to the Reginald Denny incident during the 1992 L.A. Riots, who was pulled from his semi-truck by a mob and nearly beaten to death before bystanders intervened. Marcus also has a video from an incident in Northern Ireland where two British soldiers in plain-clothes were essentially pulled from their car and beaten and shot dead by an angry crowd. One of the soldiers had drawn a pistol, but either dropped it or had it knocked from his hands as men closed around him.

    Frankly, a lone person, even with a handgun, is generally not going to be able to defend him or herself from a crowd. For instance, earlier this month (May 2021), Joseph Hall had the misfortune to drive into the middle of a BLM protest in a suburb of Portland, Oregon. His vehicle was boxed in so he couldn't leave, and when he got out to confront the crowd. The article relates what happened next:

    Hall said he stepped out of his pickup and someone snatched the keys from the truck. When he went around to the back of the truck, he said several people in the crowd remained hostile and pointed handguns and rifles at him.

    He said he then pulled his .38-caliber pistol from his pants and headed into the fray.

    “I’m trained in the military to walk towards the threat and fight your way through the threat,” said Hall. He said he served in the U.S. Marines and U.S. Army and has a concealed weapons permit out of Columbia County.

    The videos capture when Hall headed to the back of his truck and confronted the crowd as two men dressed in black point rifles at him. One of the men holding a rifle pushes Hall down as others in the crowd yell, “Get his gun!”

    People then tackled, punched, and kicked him, according to Hall and the videos.

    Hall said his .38-caliber gun popped out of his hand and was stolen. People also stole other guns from his truck, he said. He called 911 and said he was told police were monitoring the situation.

    An ambulance was sent and he was taken to Legacy Emanuel Hospital, where he’s being treated for a dislocated shoulder, broken left clavicle and five broken ribs, he said.

Trying to defend yourself against a crowd or mob is particularly fraught now because the prosecutors in these Democratic strongholds are unwilling to charge protestors, but are more than happy to charge (and over-charge) anyone that tries to protect themselves from the protestors. 

    So, short take: stay away from crowds.